Ain't Nobody's Business

>> Tuesday, November 8, 2011

On the last post I pointed out one way (of many) that failing to legally recognize same-sex marriage hurts the people in question. I have, to date, never heard anything approaching a compelling argument on the harm caused by recognizing same sex marriage. Feel free to include your compelling reason in a comment if you'd like, but note that I'm apt to rebut and the level of sarcasm is inversely proportional to the intelligence of your reason. If you have a thoughtful well-reasoned reason, my answer, though likely counter, will be similarly thoughtful. (Note that anything religious as a reason is a null answer for legality as far as I'm concerned.)

If it's asinine, expect no gentleness. Consider yourself duly warned. I believe everyone is entitled to express his/her opinion and to live with the consequences of that expression, including ridicule if it's stupid enough. Just because everyone can state an opinion does not make those opinions of equal worth or veracity. I'm sick to death of readily disproved nonsense being trotted forward and given credence no matter how idiotic because we are all afraid of calling nonsense what it is in this world of free speech. I am willing to back my opinions with data and examples and logic. If you can't do the same, you might want to rethink airing it in this forum.

Note also that the subject at hand is "right to marry and legal sanctions against gays." People can find same-sex sex as personally distasteful as they like as long as they don't express said opinions by force or use them to discriminate. As soon as you use your opinion to cause harm, I lose all sympathy with your free speech. I'm sure that snuggling up to a big-breasted woman or a beefy hunk o' man turns the stomach of various members of the gay and lesbian community, but I've never heard of any pushing to make it illegal. Or even trying to convert anyone.

It would certainly be easier on most of them if they were straight; they're not because, well, they're not. And I think most of them consider their state immutable, a part of who they are. They don't want to deny themselves who they are; I don't think they should have to.

Anyway, I've digressed mightily from my original point (stupid soapbox!), which was examining what Shakespeare commented on the last post and my reply to her. There were two aspects. One was that people are born gay/straight. I've read some compelling evidence, genetically, that argues that can be true. I don't know if it's true for everyone who considers themselves gay, if people are always born one way or the other or if some aren't hardwired and can change direction over time. I don't see why it matters. People are individuals and genetics are pretty complicated; maybe there's more than one right answer. I can tell you one thing; far more people have experimented with the notion at one time in their life than will readily admit it. I did, and, though I'm quite firmly in the heterosexual camp, I don't regret it. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter for me personally.

But I think "the cause" is beside the  point. Whether you're gay because your physiology gives you little choice or whether you just like it like that, who should care? Some do, I know, because they want to "cure" it, but, since I don't have any interest in doing so, I don't care if you were born to be gay, if you were traumatized by someone of the opposite sex (or even your own) and that triggered your preference, if you happened across your same-sex soulmate and switched, or if you chose your sexual orientation with a drunken bout of darts.

Ain't none of my business, who someone else finds sexually attractive. Ain't none of yours either. Which leads to the second point. Why the hate?

Well, undoubtedly some are as Shakespeare noted, disgusted by the notion, convinced it is sinful or otherwise unnatural. However, the stigma attached to this particular "sin" is given a disproportionate amount of importance and reaction. I mean, Muslims and Jews both eschew pork and have for centuries (and for a far better reason), but when was the last time you heard of a pork farmer dragged behind the truck of irate rabbis?

I'm skeptical that the notion that someone is sinning (in ways that affect no one else in their daily lives, other than their lovers) would really engender this level of hatred and condemnation in most normal people given that few of us have gone through our lives without impinging on some of the commandments or sins of whatever religion we favor ourselves. I mean, shouldn't we be sin-free before we start gathering rocks? I know I'm not (sin-free or rock gathering).

I have my own ideas on why there's so much hatred here, theories, speculation and observations. But I'll save those for next time.


  • Roy

    You're preachin to the choir here, sistah! You've certainly stated all my own arguments anti the haters. And I doubt that any of your regular readers disagree with you, either, so I'm thinking you won't get anyone taking up your challenge unless somebody from the Westboro Baptist Church happens to be trolling the Web and stumbles upon this. But I'll be interested in reading ideas on why this particular hatred exists because frankly I don't get it.

  • Shakespeare

    Historians speculate that the reason Americans are so fascinated with the Jewish Holocaust is b/c it's something that can DEFINITELY have no guilt in, since we were not involved in it at all, except to end it.

    That is where, I believe, this hate resides... we can't hate adulterers, not if 75% of relationships involve adultery at some level... we can't hate drug addicts if we like our daily six-pack of beer... but if we are decidedly heterosexual, we can have no fear that our hate will bite us back, that we might condemn ourselves some day.

    It guilt-free hate... never to be turned inward.

    But that's just my opinion. And I agree with you. None of my business. I don't want to know what my neighbors are doing, or my relatives, or my friends, behind closed doors. Not my beeswax, not at all, and there's no reason it should be.

  • Relax Max

    The title of this post is "Ain't Nobody's Business," and a couple of paragraphs into this post you remind us that "the subject at hand is "right to marry and legal sanctions against gays.'"

    I take this to mean when you say you think whatever sexual things are being done in consensual private behind closed doors BY GAYS AND LESBIANS is nobody's business but theirs, and you wouldn't think of interfering?

    I ask you this before I make my true comment, because I don't want to bring down your wrath upon what you may assume, by your personal beliefs and standards, to be a ::shudder:: asinine comment such as could expect no gentleness (civility?) from you. Well, I suppose I have already blown that. But I ask you in sincerity if you are speaking only of gay behavior behind closed doors being none of your business, or if you extend your blanket of benign tolerance to what others -- heterosexual couples, for example -- do behind closed doors as well? I just want to make sure I am on your intended post-wavelength before I make an asinine comment. This is partly because of something else you say further down: "Ain't none of my business, who someone else finds sexually attractive. Ain't none of yours either."

    I DO have a comment on your post, but humbly request your affirmation or clarification or amplification of the above points before I make that comment, because, as you well know, I am hardly your intellectual equal and, though I am pretty thick-skinned, I'd rather not endure any unnecessary slings and arrows from the mainstream choir. As it were.

    I have high hopes my head will be bobbing happily along with the rest when this is all over.

    Thank you.

  • Stephanie Barr

    RM, the title of the post refers to the sentence you quoted: ""Ain't none of my business, who someone else finds sexually attractive. Ain't none of yours either." And it applies to G&L folks, heterosexual folks, and quite a few people who push quite a few fringes.

    As long as we are talking consenting adults, in my opinion, it's not my business or anyone else's but those involved.

  • Stephanie Barr

    Shakespeare, I suspect that's one reason, but I don't think it's the only one of the reasons.

  • Stephanie Barr

    RM, you might noticed, despite your goading, my answer was perfectly civil.

  • Relax Max

    Well, I believe nobody really knows why people are different sexual orientations, and I believe it doesn't, or shouldn't, matter to other people. I lean towards the genetic theory, but I can't give you any facts. It just seems that people are born the way they are born. As for where the anger of people at these groups comes from, I don't think I agree with shakespeare completely, but I can't tell a better reason yet. I won't make a disruptive comment after all. I will think some more.

  • Relax Max

    Yes, you were civil. I was a little afraid because you laid down the rules pretty thick for comments to this post. :)

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