tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post8340658231110267181..comments2023-10-14T06:19:18.000-05:00Comments on Rocket Scientist: "The Magic of Metric" - RepostStephanie Barrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-22456139453855436152014-12-16T01:05:11.785-06:002014-12-16T01:05:11.785-06:00GIlda, you touch on something critical - units do ...GIlda, you touch on something critical - units do two things - they allow you to figure out how much or how big something will be, but they also convey that measurement to someone else. <br /><br />When people say it's all a matter of choice, that's like saying, I can go through life using only pig latin. You could conceivably do that, but it probably won't get you a job as an orator or any job where you need to communicate effectively. Units are how we communicate between producer and consumer, from systems working together, etc. Any fuzz on that, or extra work to make it so, and the communication - the WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE UNIT - is lost. <br /><br />In some cases, it means large costs, mismatched hardware, even lives lost. That doesn't make it sound too smart.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-87446431294837462212014-12-15T23:52:54.673-06:002014-12-15T23:52:54.673-06:00I think we all need a world standard. We can learn...I think we all need a world standard. We can learn a new way to measure things. We're not that stupid. When I was a kid we had metric signs on our roads in Southern California. I remember being so excited we were going to join the rest of the modern world. And then those signs were taken down. What hubris. The signs were up, paid for, posted. They had miles and Km. We were going to learn to use both. That would put us *ahead* of so many. Oh well, then this happened in 1999.<br /><br />Metric mishap caused loss of NASA orbiter<br />http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/<br /><br />Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10205396143765845474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-45595056699741373562009-11-14T15:10:13.180-06:002009-11-14T15:10:13.180-06:00All I am saying is our system works just fine. It ...All I am saying is our system works just fine. It is the system we use every day. I don't see it being flawed at all. <br />I guess it is just the way your mind works...<br /><br />And my previous statement meant. It is the USA way of measuring and that is good enough for me.<br /> <br />I can build anything you want using our system without any problems. In fact it works better than metric because every person in the civilian construction field is on the same page and communications is conveyed better using a system we know rather than try and convert to.<br /><br />It probably works better for you and that is fine. But if I disagree doesn’t make me wrong, just not on your side.<br /><br />I just prefer my inch broke down into 32 parts. <br />Works perfect for me, and that is all that matters to me. Use whatever system you want, but don’t say my way is wrong if the end result is the same…Jeff Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00667419764890599092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-52331069850532040652009-11-14T10:38:46.760-06:002009-11-14T10:38:46.760-06:00I enjoy this topic myself (even though I disagree ...I enjoy this topic myself (even though I disagree that units are a measure of personal choice. Really, why use a unit at all if it doesn't mean anything to someone else?)<br /><br />Feel free to debate more in the future. And I'm glad you enjoyed it. I know I love learning stuff. I hope you do, too.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-4515891809246759082009-11-14T10:18:06.067-06:002009-11-14T10:18:06.067-06:00I don't know where to begin. I read this last ...I don't know where to begin. I read this last night and slept on it. It is a fine post. You have said everybody else in the world uses it and you have said it is more precise and easier to use. I think you probably agree scientists like it. You have added your opinion that anyone who doesn't use it is stupid. But you have been very thorough in supporting your case, and I enjoyed your post.<br /><br />I did start taking notes about the things I didn't agree with you on, but then stopped because there is no way I would ever persuade you that people should use whatever they like, any more than you are going to persuade me that everyone should logically use the metric system for all things - and that is at the core of this discussion.<br /><br />I did like your post a lot. And I will bring up my notes to you later, simply because it is fun to debate. But thank you for this. I also enjoyed all the comments.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-22899666697486122152009-11-14T09:51:15.644-06:002009-11-14T09:51:15.644-06:00Yay, the Mother! Smart thinking! You saved your bo...Yay, the Mother! Smart thinking! You saved your boys some irksome, complicated, needlessly tiresome math problems that serve no purpose even when faced with "standard unit" problems since all but the simplest activities can be done faster (and with fewer errors) by converting to SI, calculating, and converting back. Funny how that is, isn't it?Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-35678712017850959942009-11-14T09:48:49.559-06:002009-11-14T09:48:49.559-06:00Project Savior, you're worried because you thi...Project Savior, you're worried because you think going metric will make everything too small. Get a ruler with metric (if you can find one) and look at how huge a difference that's going to make.<br /><br />And I just used 1.2/2.4 m as an example of easily used measurements that were all but indistinguishable from current measurements as far as human factors were concerned - especially given that we vary in height by far more than a few cm)it for an example. I can as easily make the wood 1.5 (gasp devisible by 3 and 6 quite readily)x3m and adjust accordingly. Since metric construction is often performed in mm (and a mm is generally far more precision than construction needs), I just don't see the issue.<br /><br />What seems the "norm" today can be adjusted slightly (as food packaging has almost without notice) and we'll learn new "standards" often without even thinking about it. Only, if we have to do anything clever with the new ones, the math becomes desperately simple. <br /><br />By the way, our Founding Fathers were deeply involved in the creation of the SI units and they'r as useful as a foot that's a half an inch longer than my own (unless I'm in heels). But I have unusually large feet. For my father, a "foot" was a good 2 or so inches shorter. Truthfully, it doesn't matter where a unit came from. We just need to understand it. It needs to always mean the same thing no matter who's using it. It needs to be ambiguous. And, in this high tech world, it would be nice if it could manipulated via calculation effectively.<br /><br />Truly, the standard system of units doesn't accomplish any of those things. And SI does.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-10002770369012990312009-11-14T09:33:51.393-06:002009-11-14T09:33:51.393-06:00As a homeschooler, I taught my kids to think in me...As a homeschooler, I taught my kids to think in metric.<br /><br />That's something I had to train myself to do, when I was in the lab. I had to give measures in metric, and I had a choice--learn to estimate in metric or measure every damn thing.<br /><br />Guess what I picked?<br /><br />Ask me how big four inches is, and I'll probably hedge. As me how big four centimeters is, and I'll be within a fraction of a millimeter.<br /><br />Weights, too, up to a couple of kilos.<br /><br />I've lost some of it, being out of practice. But my kids grew up with it, so I hope they'll be better off.The Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15157821003454766570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-51844127600402218772009-11-14T09:31:16.525-06:002009-11-14T09:31:16.525-06:00Where the human friendliness really comes in is th...Where the human friendliness really comes in is the counters and desks and other objects you use every day.<br />Imagine everything shaved down, your desk .75 cm shorter and thinner with 2cm taken off the end. It doesn't sound like much it would be really noticed in the leg room.<br />Or your kitchen counter tops 9cm shorter to round to a meter (I suppose you could go with 1.1 and just add a centimeter, leaving 200cm of waste material.)<br />I'm just saying the meter would have been better if it had been calculated out to use the human dimensions instead of the flawed estimates of the distance from the equator to the North Pole.Darrell B. Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02851443183217238218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-49941134546086272612009-11-14T07:24:46.515-06:002009-11-14T07:24:46.515-06:00Project Savior, everyone's got their little be...Project Savior, everyone's got their little beef, where they want to have their little part of the world use the old stuff (because it's "natural"). I understand wanting to use what you know. I do, really. My house has been degrees C so long, I know where I'm comfortable, but I stumble if I have to tell someone, in F what temp it is.<br /><br />SI was first mandated, in the US, in 1866. That's more than a hundred years the US has had converting to metric legally the plan. Special interests, though (those that thought it was a good idea for everyone but them) kept it from beign mandatory, though, so we're still not doing it, though we've reupped those laws repeatedly (<a href="" rel="nofollow">A useful chronology for those who think this is a recent development</a>)<br /><br />You mentioned construction, which uses inches and feet. There's a good argument for this, if everything was like it once was in Japan - where every room was once designed to fit an even number of tatami mats, truly standard (or so I once read). Unless every room is going to match a factor of 4x8 feet, where's the benefit in using "standard" measurements?<br /><br />Some people can calculate 1/3 and 1/6 of 96 in their heads easily, true. Most can't. Now, tell me 1/3 and 1/6 of board 1.2x2.4 meters (1200x2400 board). (same size as a 4x8 with 2 cm shaved off one side and 4cm shaved off the other - still fairly human friendly, I'd presume). I don't know. I think most people could get .4 (or 400 mm) and .2 (200 mm) at least as fast as they can get 32" and 16" respectively. And, with mm/m, there's no ambiguousness when you move beyond 8' (as one has to do repeatedly in construction). There's no conversion to figuring floor or wall are in a room that's 7.2mx6mx3m high but how long will it take you to figure that out in a room that's 23' 7"x19'8"x9'11' (as the room I'm in is). I calculate the one once - done. The others all have to be converted into inches or feet, then multiplied, and, if I used inches, converted again.<br /><br />You do that.<br /><br />Many industries have balked at the notion of changing. Most have realized savings when they've actually embraced the change, not even counting the increased simplicity (labor time) with fewer errors. Errors, of course=money wasted. <a href="http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/pays-off.html" rel="nofollow">Check this out</a>.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-79184108972760260782009-11-14T05:09:26.184-06:002009-11-14T05:09:26.184-06:00The only slight grip (and a reason we haven't ...The only slight grip (and a reason we haven't converted) I have with the metric system is in construction. The standard sizes are based around 4' X 8' construction material. You quickly get used to working in fractions of 96".<br />If when the metric system was set up they had set the meter equal to 96" or 48" or even 32" the construction industry would have embraced it immediately as a standard.<br />Working with 1.2192m X 2.4384m (or even 1.25 x 2.5) is actually harder mentally than 48" X 96" when you are dividing by 3 and 6. <br />Unfortunately the 4' X 8' standard can't be modified much as it takes the human's size into consideration.Darrell B. Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02851443183217238218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-67078765492951793322009-11-13T22:53:30.688-06:002009-11-13T22:53:30.688-06:00Jeff, I have no idea what you were saying. Are you...Jeff, I have no idea what you were saying. Are you arguing that no amount of evidence matters because it's ours? Or are you joking?Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-32335867477918191812009-11-13T21:58:30.503-06:002009-11-13T21:58:30.503-06:00The topic looks to be covered from top to bottom.
...The topic looks to be covered from top to bottom.<br /><br />The only thing i can add is keep our system. Why, because it is ours. The good old USA attitude, our way is the better way. Even if you have so called evidence it is flawed...<br /><br />thxJeff Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00667419764890599092noreply@blogger.com