tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post5216426464698161689..comments2023-10-14T06:19:18.000-05:00Comments on Rocket Scientist: So Much for Stirring the PotStephanie Barrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-71937774269564326742009-06-16T17:30:40.617-05:002009-06-16T17:30:40.617-05:00In the future, I'll point out the intelligence...In the future, I'll point out the intelligence and courtesy of my readership...and Relax Max.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-11875732091832673032009-06-16T15:22:03.042-05:002009-06-16T15:22:03.042-05:00I am offended by the opening paragraph of this pos...I am offended by the opening paragraph of this post. Although I am a regular reader of your blog, I am pretty mindless and gullible. I will thank you not to lump us all together.Relax Maxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01051381168322495999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-4008330436625432282009-06-16T06:34:56.847-05:002009-06-16T06:34:56.847-05:00So we keep being told.
The problem is, changing...So we keep being told. <br /><br />The problem is, changing the world on a profit motive, doesn't make it better. Instead of helping people, they are almost always just a way to further concentrate the money among a few. <br /><br />There are organizations that do tremendous things world wide without a profit motive, Red Cross, WHO, even the Bill Gates, Habitat for Humanity, Doctors Without Borders. Even the efforts to put affordable computers into the hands of every child. In the long run, the changes we make for the right reasons are the ones that make the world better.<br /><br />In my opinion.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-39976309763470719952009-06-16T00:11:12.027-05:002009-06-16T00:11:12.027-05:00Stephanie - True. Sadly, human nature is such that...Stephanie - True. Sadly, human nature is such that few things motivate more reliably than greed or self defense. <br /><br />To play devil's advocate, where would the money come from to fund research focused on saving lives instead of profit? Human decency is its own reward, but you can't eat it, and you certainly can't retire comfortably off it's dividends.<br /><br />I'm not really as callous as these arguments sound. But I am jaded enough to know that the masses of humanity vote (in aggregate) with their pocket books. Follow the money. The fastest way to change the world is to make it profitable for someone to do so. <br /><br />Unfortunately, many of our current crises (health care, energy, climate) clearly demonstrate that the fastest doesn't mean the best.<br /><br />Nice trading insights with you.<br />CheersRichard Perkinshttp://richard-rowland-perkins.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-70299037621285085472009-06-15T23:13:42.378-05:002009-06-15T23:13:42.378-05:00The problem is that we'd have to depend on the...The problem is that we'd have to depend on the drug companies for that answer and they have a vested interest in the profit margin. <br /><br />There are other motivations for advance besides riches. Perhaps we might find research would focus more on saving lives and less on acne treatment if profit wasn't as much of an incentive.<br /><br />I've read of older medicines that have great potential in helping disease in third world nations, but, since there's no profit margin, they aren't pursued. Perhaps, if we funded some research on merit instead of profit, we could do even better.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-26073106323110120202009-06-15T23:01:33.069-05:002009-06-15T23:01:33.069-05:00Stephanie - You're right about semi-solutions,...Stephanie - You're right about semi-solutions, without a doubt. One other factor I overlooked before about the evils/benefits of big pharma: we no longer really have national economies or national markets. Instead we live in a world economy where everything is connected. So even if a big pharma company is based in a nation with universal health care and does their R&D in that economic environment, they still have huge capitalist markets to sell their products in (like us). <br /><br />Case in point: We lived in Australia for two years where we enjoyed a wonderful universal health care system. We have an asthmatic cat (don't ask) who takes fluticasone daily. Oz medicare didn't cover our cat, so we were paying for the inhalers at the unsubsidized market price. Our prescription cost for that drug (branded Flonase in Australia) was just over $50. Now that we're back in the US, we pay nearly $200 for the same drug (branded Flovent here). We're unemployed and uninsured here in the US, so again we're paying the market price. <br /><br />Granted prices do fluctuate over the course of 2 years, but we were buying Flovent in the US prior to moving to Australia for a little over $100 in 2006. (We were insured then, but the cat wasn't so it's still an apples to apples comparison) Now in 2009 it costs twice as much here and still costs the same in Oz. Same drug (fluticasone proprionate), same company (Glaxo Smith Kline based in UK), same dosage, different market.<br /> <br />What's the point? Big pharma companies with deep pockets can afford to lay out lavish sums of money on R&D for exotic wonder drugs. They can also afford to sell those product in socialized markets for minimal profit, because capitalist markets (like us) will pay more, especially if they can market their new wonder drug directly to the patient, bypassing those pesky doctors (sorry Mother)<br /><br />Sigh. I guess it would be difficult to find conclusive data on whether capitalist healthcare systems promote or hinder expensive healthcare technology development better or worse than socialized medical systems. The markets are too entangled to decouple. Unless we ran an experiment where we shut down all the capitalist healthcare markets... hmm anyone up for an experiment?<br />;-)Richard Perkinshttp://richard-rowland-perkins.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-80655588134777681442009-06-15T22:47:57.267-05:002009-06-15T22:47:57.267-05:00That's one reason I think healthcare reform is...That's one reason I think healthcare reform is necessary today. There are good doctors, not out to get rich, just out to make a living like the rest of us, who want to help people get well. I've met a few.<br /><br />However, it's hard to think of a doctor you've spent 20 minutes with who charged $180 for the time as someone on your side, as someone who hasn't gouged you and your insurance (if you're lucky enough to have it). If prices continue to rise, I suspect their will be a backlash against doctors and, as I think we've noted, this is more than just doctors trying to get rich.<br /><br />Though I agree it feels like it sometimes.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-36914007276432388112009-06-15T22:25:39.317-05:002009-06-15T22:25:39.317-05:00I will offer a dour view of health care. America ...I will offer a dour view of health care. America is becoming a poorer nation. We have to lower our standard of living to compete with India and China. Does China worry about their health care costs? The result of this global competition is America will have a lower our standard of living. It has already started. We don’t have speculative bubbles (housing, stock market) to goose our incomes. This means that the medical field will be forced to take a haircut. A very big one, because we don’t have the money anymore. Rich doctors will be less rich, along with the rest of us. Which is fine with me.Davidhttp://occultview.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-57052152033276244632009-06-15T21:45:30.876-05:002009-06-15T21:45:30.876-05:00Aron, of course preventive care is cheaper than tr...Aron, of course preventive care is cheaper than treating a serious condition. I alluded to it so you'll have to pick a different country, perhaps one with universal healthcare. Perhaps you can sneer at us from France.<br /><br />:)<br /><br />Richard, many industrialized nations have had universal healthcare/socialized medicine for decades, yet they are often involved in medical breakthroughs (France was one of the biggies, if I remember, involved in AIDS research). Clearly it can be done and they have the health stats to prove it. We have examples of many different options, but to say it can't work defies logic to me. It does work. It has worked and it's working now. We don't have to start from scratch.<br /><br />One thing we do need, though, is a government committed to it. Half-baked plans and politically mealy-mouthed, poorly executed semi-solutions are likely to be worse than nothing.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-25186718745350822472009-06-15T21:38:04.566-05:002009-06-15T21:38:04.566-05:00The double edged sword of big pharma and a health ...The double edged sword of big pharma and a health industry fueled by a fundamentally capitalist social structure: If we cut profits for medical industry we might be able to reduce health care costs without penalizing health care practitioners or reducing the quality of care for the most of the patients. The trade-off is that big profits in the field of medical technology attract big investments, fund big research budgets, and pave the way for great leaps forward in medical treatment. (Of course they also line the pockets of every middle man along the path but if you want an omelet...)<br />In the long run, will this curb the rapid growth of healing state of the art that the western world has enjoyed over the last 2-3 decades? I can't answer that with my murky crystal ball. If I was more motivated I could probably do some research into new drug or groundbreaking medical practice releases per unit time broken in nations with expensive but intensely capitalist medical systems compared to socialized medical schemes. It would be enlightening, if anyone knows of someone who has already done such an analysis. <br />Of course this doesn't even consider the prohibitively high impact of liability and administrative costs on American health care that Stephanie and Mother have already pointed out so eloquently. <br />I just wanted to bring up another consideration, to add another dimension to this multidimensional challenge we face. <br />There are no easy problems... just easy (and usually wrong)solutions. ;-)Richard Perkinshttp://richard-rowland-perkins.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-29185520839815093922009-06-15T21:34:45.005-05:002009-06-15T21:34:45.005-05:00I'm sorry if my comment on Sunday's post i...I'm sorry if my comment on Sunday's post is illogical.Aron Sorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09327072976517417107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-1910716837815414732009-06-15T21:33:52.126-05:002009-06-15T21:33:52.126-05:00Could preventing health problems be cheaper then s...Could preventing health problems be cheaper then solving them? Would it be easier for a doctor to do a quick 10 min check up every two weeks rather then spend 20 hours operating on a huge problem? Could the personal trainer reduce health care costs in this nation. If doctors gave a diet instead of pills, would this be better?<br /><br />I'm North Korea and you two are the US and Russia, I'm playing wit fire here but this discussion still has some life to it. Plus I get to work on my debating skills at the expense of my skin. (Don't hurt me, I don't really have nukes)Aron Sorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09327072976517417107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-50876331127298838792009-06-15T21:13:08.732-05:002009-06-15T21:13:08.732-05:00I do strive for accuracy. Not saying I always man...I do strive for accuracy. Not saying I always manage it, but I <i>try</i>.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-81776335870756968062009-06-15T21:07:54.413-05:002009-06-15T21:07:54.413-05:00That pretty much sums it up. No complaints here.That pretty much sums it up. No complaints here.The Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15157821003454766570noreply@blogger.com