tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post223165985919305388..comments2023-10-14T06:19:18.000-05:00Comments on Rocket Scientist: RS Classic: What Kind of World Do I Want to Live In?Stephanie Barrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-17260463444164818122010-08-19T06:39:38.971-05:002010-08-19T06:39:38.971-05:00I too, thought for a long time that polygyny shoul...I too, thought for a long time that polygyny should be a personal choice, i.e. legal. But there is some new research by Joseph Heinrich that makes the case for polygyny being harmful for society, see <a href="http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2010/07/monogamy-evolves.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BhaScienceGroup+%28Epiphenom%29&utm_content=Google+Reader" rel="nofollow"> this blogpost </a>on Epiphenom. The jury, of course, is still out - and I haven't read Heinrich's work in detail. Food for thought, I guess.Boris Legradichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06306946018677419450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-59572198574447564422010-08-08T10:41:24.786-05:002010-08-08T10:41:24.786-05:00So can mine, The Mother. I bleed for all those who...So can mine, The Mother. I bleed for all those who think they have no other options or who are conditioned to think oppression is the natural order of things. And kudos to you for doing your part to encourage people to think.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-9085937082987893882010-08-08T09:44:34.347-05:002010-08-08T09:44:34.347-05:00No, no--I agree with you. I'm just playing dev...No, no--I agree with you. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.<br /><br />There are lots of successful societies down through history that define families differently than we do. Communal homes and shared sex partners are a very reasonable adaptation. And I will defend to the death any adult woman's choice to engage in any weird, wacky and way out sexual practices that float her boat.<br /><br />I'm just pointing out that "consensual" may only mean "societally conditioned." And no, given our current state of technology, we cannot even begin to separate them out. <br /><br />And my heart can still bleed for those women who can't tell the difference.The Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15157821003454766570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-90396444430894464852010-08-08T08:57:17.073-05:002010-08-08T08:57:17.073-05:00Unfortunately, polygamy is most often equated with...Unfortunately, polygamy is most often equated with lascivious men gathering child brides, but I see no reason why it has to be limited to that. I'd be very much surprised if there haven't been quite successful relationship like that - only no one hears about them because they're still taboo. <br /><br />It doesn't appeal to me personally; however, I can't say whether that's cultural indoctrination - that monogamy is the ideal - or whether I truly feel that way.<br /><br />From a practical standpoint, I can think of many advantages.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-88877685344419254622010-08-08T08:47:01.915-05:002010-08-08T08:47:01.915-05:00I understand what you're saying, I really do. ...I understand what you're saying, I really do. The problem is, we can't tell who is getting married because they're brainwashed into it and who genuinely wants to be married that way (and I think we're fooling ourselves if we even think everyone of a particular culture does so because they have no choice).<br /><br />But it's not limited to those cultures. In this culture, we're still focused on beauty instead of merit. In this culture, there are still a significant percentage of women who feel they are nothing without male admiration/adoration. There are still significant numbers of the populace (male/female) that think getting pregnant equates with getting married, even if you hate each other. <br /><br />There are dozens of perfectly stupid reasons people get married, often fostered by culture and/or growing up environment. Until the culture changes, that will continue to be the case (and it will affect men, too, though, perhaps, not to the same degree).<br /><br />But people, when they're adults, get to decide for themselves. With kids, we have some control against protecting them from their bad judgement. As adults, they're entitled to make mistakes and I believe no one has the right to keep them from doing so.<br /><br />As soon as we decide we can keep a consenting adult from choosing something based on the notion she doesn't really know what she wants (wow, did that feel Victorian to write), we're every bit as oppressive. <br /><br />Best we can do (I think) is try to change our corner of the world of culture and make sure they have alternatives, have the right to leave the marriage if they need to.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8198390912401056862.post-11703941771988603622010-08-08T08:02:42.740-05:002010-08-08T08:02:42.740-05:00"If a group of consenting adults are so close..."If a group of consenting adults are so close they consider themselves a family, where everyone is cognizant and agreeable to the situation, where’s the harm? The key for me is consenting and adults."<br /><br />And herein lies the problem.<br /><br />If a woman is brainwashed by religious ideology that has been fed to her since she was two, is she still capable of making a rational and critical decision about her own life?<br /><br />What about the women in burkas? They, theoretically, are doing it willingly.<br /><br />The women in polygamous marriages in Islamic countries? Are they consenting willingly?<br /><br />All of these push my big red button. But...<br /><br />If she really IS doing it willingly, rationally, then--good for her.<br /><br />The problem lies in what constitutes rationality. Do we have to give everyone a psych exam before they join a polygamous cult? Put them through one of those truth-telling MRIs? (That won't actually work, of course, if they are convinced by religious ideology, because that is self-truth).<br /><br />While I agree, in principle, that consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they like, some part of my brain simply bleeds for those women who THINK THEY ARE.The Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15157821003454766570noreply@blogger.com